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John Dodds

Combine 2 and 3 when it comes to product development which is the forgotten heart of marketing in my opinion, but when it comes to the promotion element I think you need to have knowledge of what marketing is.

Otherwise you end up with the disconnect between creation and marketing that is typified by but not exclusive to the tech world where marketing is viewed as some bastardised version of sales and bullshit. Now that may be an appropriate definition for some really bad marketing we can all name but the head in the sand - "we don't need marketing" reaction doesn't really get us anywhere.

So 2 + 3 + marketing 101 is my suggestion. And any use of the B word is forbidden.


John, you know me - my problem with marketing 101 is the "target for the push" concept it builds on.

But selective use of the tools can of course be of help for #2 - spread the word that "the circus is in town". I have to admit that there are good, engineer-driven products out there that even make use of advertising - Porsche, Campagnolo - so partly agree, but filter the methods first please :D

David Terrar

2 and 3 definitely, however I have a couple of points to add. I wholeheartedly believe in the 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing, by Al Ries and Jack Trout, whichever method of approach you choose. Some laws of marketing are just ignored (at their peril) by so many major organizations e.g. SAP is big, complex, long projects - they'll have a real difficulty distancing A1S at 1/10 of the TCO from SAP=Big in the prospects mind.

Also, I recommend you read the 8th bonus chapter in The Seven Secrets of Inspired Leadership by Phil Dourado and Dr. Phil Blackburn. It says Get a New Business Architecture, not an MBA - you'll identify with all of it - intelligent community, founding principles, upside-down organization, small is the new big etc.

Balaji Sowmyanarayanan

Here again novelty( 'differentiator' as you put it in the recent posts) is at play. Market survey was the wiki of the past. And wiki will become tool of MBA squad soon enough.

The MBA squad is too burdened by the "practice" - a collection of what has worked in the past.
The circus troupe is obsessed with what has not been attempted in the past.
The Cluetrain will work for now till it becomes mainstream!
Novelty that works is the holy grail.

John Dodds

I'm not sure I see marketing 101 as push-based. God forbid I tie myself to any specific inviolate "rules" of marketing (or anything else). But I'd suggest that I am talking about the old school 4Ps - because within that you see the multifarious aspects that comprise marketing (and that promotion is but part of it).

Perhaps the distribution aspect, or the pricing aspect might be construed as push elements inasmuch as they implcitly identify a broad target market by dint of excluding those who won't pay that price or don't frequent those distribution channels, but that is very different (in my mind at least) from the "identify a group and target them" mentality.

Clive Birnie

We do a bit of 2 a bit of 3... in commenting
on Dennis's reference to your post I wrote:

The first type have Marketing Departments who spend Budgets. The 2nd may have. The third doesn’t because marketing (everything communicates so communicate everything?)their business is an intuitive part of everyday life rather than something that needs a hierarchy and a budget etc…

Should have said it here first so correcting that, although a little concerned that I have used the words "budgets" and "hierarchies" on your blog...


Balaji, novelty is a great point - circus act needs that, but it's also a good one for "stories" that travel faster, thus making even an old fashioned marketing mix easier.

David and John - the hard part about discussing marketing point-by-point is that "how you read/understand" every term is in the eye of the beholder, from what value basis, what world view one comes. "Promotion" - marketing or inclusive conversation? Can be either. "Price" - targeting segmented markets or pay for value? Both are allowed and even mainstream (hey, when I fly Easyjet I always sit next to somebody who paid much less, or even more).

Clive, budgets and targets, same thing I guess! And ouch on being nudged on "budgets and hierarchies", am I that transparently religious about such bad, useless, awast ye scurvy cursed terms... oops, there I go again, oh well... :-D

Clive Birnie

Sig, not nudging you - just letting you know that I am paying attention!

jack vaughan

talk about confused! I was in thingamy.com and wanted to move over to the blog and somehow I ended up in some English woman's much neglected blog site

No matter! I would like to explore the use of your software from the get-go in a startup.

I will see if there is a non-public link on thingamy.com



Ouch, ouch, nav problems... and then you ended up all the way back here?
Do not despair - lots of contact details in the open on top right on this page - or under "Contact" at the thingamy.com site or on the bottom of the 30megs.com site or on Google or on... ah well, ping me or mail me and let's take it from there.

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